Talk:Epic Path

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paladin then warlord


lvl	rogue	*fight	wiz/r	wiz/a	prowl	barb	braw	rang	monk	alch	part

1	21	16	7	5	32	32	29	28	24	20	20
6	43	40	38	25	50	57	45	49	49	58	49
11	156	103	237	155	140	141	122	160	142	144	124
16	287	243	605	393	255	301	265	233	268	235	232
21	680	410	1339	870	582	700	657	629	609	668	391
26	1371	773	2786	1811	1177	1291	1086	1017	1049	1074	563	
31	2239	1393	5139	3340	1647	2228	1889	1559	1760	1438	1228
35	2679	2363	6415	4170	2544	2435	2300	1835	2688	1739	1421	
revisit crits on fighters?

Feats With No Associated Class this category serves as a handy reference for old feats to be re-worked into potential magic items

cross-class balance notes:

  • ac: may need to increase bonuses granted by AC Bonus (preferred) and Shield Bonus items to narrow parity with Armor wearers. Can also remove the various Quenches if needed.
  • revisit Base AC and AC progressions - should be integrated into the 'survivability' pass of the intra-cass balance
  • if needed, allow armor enhancement bonuses on any item in the armor slot (incl. smallclothes, auric enhancer, etc.), but not armor properties or dweomermetals (except smallclothes)
  • Evaluate impact of ACP
  • bab deltas: ability to alter the difference between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th attacks during full attack, instead of the 'stock' -5 per attack.
  • customized # of attacks: prowler gets 4 attacks, even though they have a medium BAB
  • customized BAB: deviate from low, medium, high BAB patterns? (will require a fair bit of work on the character sheet to make this work)
  • weapon crit changes? the crit mechanic adds somewhat less than 5 percent damage per 'crit point'. (it's 5 percent times the confirmation roll chance, which is usually made around half to three-quarters of the time, so each crit point works out to roughly 3 percent higher damage). A simple x2 weapon has one crit point chance per attack roll. A 19-20 x2 has two chances, an 18-20x2 or a simple x3 has three chances, etc. we could do a little analysis and add in more new crit chances, like 16-20x2 (which is 5), or 14-20x2 (which is 7). this could be a modest buff to crits and all weapon damage, and give us a wider space to make the weapons less samey. (a falcata, for example, could be a 16-20x2 weapon) as an example, a 16-20x2 (5 chances to crit per roll) adds about 12-15-20 percent weapon damage. note that we could get very radical with this, and have very large critting weapons, like 16-20x4, which would lead to about a 50-90 percent buff to weapon damage, but man, that's a lot of rolls.... thoughts?
  • Evaluate usefulness of Skill Basis (do we need it?) looking at the large gap between Easy and Average here. any way to close that? current rules do not reward a single point in a skill very much. add a new diff column called 'skilled'? is this the old trained mechanic again?
if the only useful skill point spending is "keep it maxed for your level", do we really need skill points? If there is no value in dipping into a skill but not maxing it for your level, should we just prevent players from making this mistake, and, instead of saying "You get 6 + INT mod skill points per level" we say "You can choose 6 + INT Mod skills to be good at"?  If we go this route, we can even manipulate what the DCs look like a bit more, and probably make that 'untrained' check at least a little useful (ideally, I'd love a roll of 18+ untrained to get you a challenging result, while hard and impossible are not possible for untrained).  It would be a bit of re-work, but it would simplify skills for everyone, and let us control the outcomes a bit better, I think.
huh.  well, that's certainly simpler, and honestly, tracking skill points is a giant pain in the butt.  hrrrrm. I think I might love this idea


Notes / To Do

  • need to add legendary role to the million monster machine!
  • need to issue guidelines for adapting content from other systems? the heavy/legend roles might need to be emphasized for conversion tasks
  • need to revisit the Vehicle Combat rules at some point. Clean them up, simplify where possible, and remove language about multiple piloting skills, stat dependency on ship class, etc. Perhaps vehicles should perform like magic weapons (enhance bonus, properties, dweomermetal) that the pilot 'wields' to attack. This would allow the use of to-hit rolls, instead of maneuver checks for attacking. Try to make the system more like traditional combat... maybe figure out a way to remove facing.
  • update combat page to talk about ranged attacks, firing into combat, firing through allies/enemies (soft cover)
  • figure out a way to make the bailiwicks more distinct from their associated knowledge skills. In some cases, it's not bad (Spycraft vs Know:Local), but in many cases, it's ambiguous (Reason vs. Know:Logic; Naturalism vs. Know:Nature, etc.)
  • consider cross-referencing all the between adventures into each of the appropriate skills.
  • clean up weapon page tables, adding categories for their weapon groups, handiness, and size.
  • treasure idea: in addition to remnants, other currencies could drop (settlement currencies, magic item upgrades, eggs (for mounts), etc.), maps to other locations of interest, a way to spawn specific encounters. This would also be a good way to put single-use magic items into the game (which could be anything from a bottle of alchemist's fire to a scroll that calls a deific champion to help you for one round, or a genie that grants you a single wish).
  • We could also consider making 'civilized' versus 'uncivilized' treasure parcels for monsters (could be keyed off of the monster's INT stat, meaning no changes to existing monsters, just changes to the main template), which would affect whether some of the treasure was in coins, gems, trade goods, versus just 'sellable goods' (read: goopy bits).
  • update monster template to state (under xp and treasure) that 'x role counts as x monsters'
  • update monster template to account for adding a role to a monster with a modified # of attacks
  • update monster template to allow the addition of up to two patterns
  • update monster template to pull in role-only special abilities, or exclude them if the role isn't present.
  • update monster template to include special abilities that only show up at certain min or max CR's
  • update monster template to include a 'min CR' and 'max CR' field, which allows us to specify where the monster shows up in MMM.

Reese To-Do List:

action items for million monster machine:

  • come up with prefix names for each modified CR value (-2 CR to +5 CR) -- lesser, minor, common, greater, major, superior, elite, supreme (for example)
  • review all existing monster names, and all proposed monster names, to make sure our prefixes don't lead to really dumb, unreadable names (lesser greater whompus, for example).
  • move all proposed monster names to a discussion page; only actual monsters should be in the bestiary
  • strip all the roles out of every monster that has a role.
  • add language into the description that says "This monster is nearly always a <role> monster. It is highly recommended that this role be applied to it." or whatever.
  • recode any role-specific powers into new fields that are specific to roles-only powers. This will require me to create new fields for the template, but doesn't require a complete revamping of every monster.
  • trap damage table?
  • re-write perform skill to collapse it into a single skill (instead of subskills).
  • Perform: performance complexity - clarify to setting the CR of the song
  • same for entertaining an audience
  • need a note in the ability scores page (and probably the caster pages) that you can't get spells of a higher level than your class level allows, even with a high stat.
  • add new status conditions that inflict a circle penalty (or alter existing conditions to include it)
  • create a "circle 0" and update the various mana burning rules for it.
  • would like to go through the major numbers of the game (skills, ac, to-hits, damage, etc.) and list out each possible bonus type, their max bonus (for each type) and get a sense of our ranges.
  • Update Between Adventures section on Spell Research to clarify language about adding metamagic to a researched spell -- metamagic added /can/ increase the gross spell level above 17, just not be added as research to produce an infinitely metamagicked spell.


  • Character Sheet:
  • PDF Character Sheet (Fillable) -- yes, this will happen
  • create sample characters for each class, with planned builds up through level 5


  • Monsters:
  • create at least 10 per CR. Still need CR's 19 through 40, but CR's 1 - 18 are done enough for now.


  • Setting:
  • Cosmology of Creation page should be tailored to suit our view of the campaign setting. If we try to keep it 'generic', it will feel hollow.
  • decide how the many races factor into our default setting. Are all the races treated as normal citizens, or are some discriminated against (half-orcs, for example)? Are non-human races (in particular the oddball ones) sometimes born to human parents, or are they only products of their own purebred lineages?


Cleanup Tasks

  • Finish moving the following into their respective templates:
  • fighter tactics
  • Equipment pages -- finish them, clean out the stupid stuff
  • finish the Designing Skill Challenges section on the Game Master's Guide page.
  • add some notes to the Spells page, regarding GM's adjudicating 'fluff' vs 'crunch'.
  • Specific examples are direct damage (crunch) vs. illusions (fluff).
  • Rules for bonuses from fluff which give general 'not to exceed' values.
  • plus for caster level (+1 to +3), and plus for creativity (+1 to +2).
  • need to update / create page for monster types and subtypes.
  • need to review any broken links to subtypes that we don't actually want to define (e.g. azata)
  • create a "tactical" keyword and category that would identify feats, abilities, skill uses, etc. that are very dependent on a map, and wouldn't work well in a 'theater of the mind' game.

Bonus Systems

  • Settlements and Sieges
  • Epic Skill System
  • Followers / Leadership / Large-Scale War Rules
  • Auramancy / Blood Magic
  • True Dweomers
  • Prestige Classes
  • Artifacts
  • Traps (as enemy combatants)
  • Remnants

Printable Version

  • Need some cover art for a book(let)s. Open to suggestions...
  • leaning towards a 5.5" x 8" book size as our 'starter guide' for cons, ~80 half-pages, for everything: how to play, character classes, equipment, weapons, low-level magic items, status conditions, basically everything you'd need to play up to level 5-ish. Interior will not have art, unless we really want to commission some.
  • Needs to be everything you need to know to play the game (at low levels), without access the internet or the wiki.
  • shouldn't have links or other web-based 'features', and it will need a table of contents and an index.
  • Short appendix that describes some of the other features that are available in the complete game on the wiki.
  • Found some online print sites that will do this for about $10/book, so 20 of these per convention would be about $200 which doesn't seem crazy to me.
  • will give these out to anyone who plays through the module.
  • pre-generated characters on no more than 4 pages each, printed on cardstock?
  • Will give these out to anyone who played that class through the module.
  • should be designed as a good party mix, rather than just 1 of each class; assume somewhere between 5 and 8 players.
  • a module we can run in 4-ish hours that shows off the best parts of our game -- skills, character class uniqueness, dynamic and fun combats, including a 'threat' fight as the finale. Characters should probably be level 1, but I'm willing to consider up to level 3 if there's a good reason to go there.
  • needs to have good opportunities to role-play, opportunities to use skills in an interesting way, and some fun set pieces for the combat encounters.

Siege Weapons / Settlements Notes

  • review 'breaking objects' page, in light of changes to vehicle combat and removal of abstract encounters rules
  • siege weapons - how do they work with the vehicle combat rules?
    • unless we want siege weapons to continue to be cumulative forces, though it seems like people hated all the dice rolling of the abstract encounters
    • right now, vehicles will never penetrate heavy defenses and fortifications; the target DC's are way too high, as are many of the durabilities
  • add weights for all doors and such on the 'breaking objects' page, for purposes of the Might skill.

moving these links to here for future re-write/inclusions/expansion, possibly/probably as part of settlement pass

Bonus Types

  • Untyped Bonus
  • Armor Bonus
  • Armor Enhancement Bonus
  • Circumstance Bonus
  • Competence Bonus
  • Dodge Bonus
  • Enhancement Bonus
  • Feat Bonus
  • Martial Bonus
  • Material Bonus
  • Morale Bonus
  • Natural Armor Bonus
  • Racial Bonus
  • Resistance Bonus
  • Retraining Bonus
  • Shield Bonus
  • Shield Enhancement Bonus
  • Size Bonus
  • Training Bonus
  • Weapon Bonus
  • performance bonus (charge)
  • arcane bonus (charge)
  • divine bonus (charge)
  • dual bonus (both arcane & divine charges)

Possible New Character Classes

  • Physical Adept class (Fleshcrafter?) - arcane-powered melee, re-tool eidolon-style abilities as self-buffs
  • Mentat Warsage Storm Knight class - intelligence-based melee and thrown weapons user.
  • Toxotes - high damage ranged attacks, trick shots (possibly just create via new rogue talents?)
  • Galvanist
  • Seeker
  • Templar
  • Effigy (Artifact? Vestige?)
  • the character is an actual artifact, which is intelligent. The actual artifact is /somewhere/, though even the player may not know where. They have extended their consciousness into a remote effigy (moppet?) with which they interact with the world.
  • they can use their experience to augment their effigy, giving it better abilities
  • like a summoner or pet class, except that the master isn't present on the battlefield
  • Assassin
  • inflicts and spreads bleeds; can end all bleeds to deal that much damage to all enemies (even non-bleeding ones)

Reminder links to complete additional classes at future date

Interesting Links