Talk:Alchemist: Difference between revisions

From Epic Path
Jump to navigation Jump to search
No edit summary
No edit summary
 
(65 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
__NOTOC__
__NOTOC__


  general design philosophy: courageous milieu should set the tone of the class and have most of the major features of the class within it. Each milieu after courageous should add one additional major feature, and otherwise just be improvements on previous features.
  1st [[Selective (Feat)]]
3rd [[Point-Blank Shot (Feat)]]
5th [[Ammo Drop (Feat)]]
7th [[Large Target (Feat)]]
9th [[Splash Weapon Mastery (Feat)]]
11th [[Bomb, Improved (Feat)]]
13th [[Weapon Focus (Feat)]] - Sling
15th [[Prone Slinger (Feat)]]
17th [[Rod Whisperer (Feat)]]
19th [[Dodge (Feat)]]
21st [[Bomb, Mighty (Feat)]]
23rd [[Mobility (Feat)]]
25th [[Shot on the Run (Feat)]]
  27th [[Weapon Focus, Greater (Feat)]] - Sling
29th [[Meta-Extract (Feat)]]
31st [[Cataclysm in a Bottle (Feat)]]
33rd [[Annus Mirabilis (Feat)]]
35th [[Empowering Bomb (Feat)]]


therefore, for alchemist:
* Courageous (1-7)
:* Bombs
:* Extracts
:* Discoveries
:* 1 Grand Discovery (?)
:* Alchemist's Fire
:* Tweaking
* Heroic (8-14)
:* Mutagen
:* Mana Burning (?)
:* 1 Grand Discovery (?)
* Valorous (15-21)
:* 1 Grand Discovery
:* Poison Use
:* Poison Resistance (to immunity)
:* Poison Efficacy (higher DC saves)
:* Poison Creation (basic poison at-will)
* Mythic (22-28)
:* Eureka Bombs - scale quantity available, and scale number of additional discoveries that can be added
:* 1 Grand Discovery
:* Paragon of Science
* Legendary (29-35)
:* Primal bombs
:* 1 Grand Discovery


a few features should probably just go away: swift alchemy, swift poisoning, instant alchemy, venom sac


  (RD) so, in general, does this approach seem to make sense to you? Are you okay with, for example, moving mutagen all the way up to 8th level? I ask because this same philosophy (several major features in courageous, then 1 per milieu after that) will likely get used in all the other classes, to some degree or another.
  Discoveries
2nd directed bomb
4th element bomb
6th dispelling bomb
8th greater mutagen
10th breath weapon bomb
12th rudiment bomb
14th fundament bomb
16th demolition charge
18th lesser infusion
20th explosive bomb
22nd greater infusion
  24th major infusion
26th immolation bomb
28th perfect infusion
30th mutation mastery
32nd delayed bomb
34th vestigial arm


===Bombs and Extracts===
ok, third swag at a bomb model. bomb damage starts at 1d6+0 (plus Int Mod only added once per bomb, not per die) scales up to 1d6+4 per die (plus int mod once per bomb).  this boosts the first level damage and nerfs a bit starting at 2? thoughts?   


  (RD) after a lot of thought, it looks okay.  Might be a smidge weak, but I can live with that.  I would suggest we hard-code the damage numbers into the table, like we have them now, rather than putting in all these formulas for the players to figure out.  We can describe the formula in the text of the bomb ability, if you really want.  Also, it should go up by +1 base damage per milieu. It's almost there now, but level 28 should still be 1d6+3, and therefore level 35 is just 1d6+4.  Alternatively, it should go up by +1 at the last level of each milieu, in which case, you need to change levels 7, 14, and 21.
  Grand Discoveries
 
   
(RD) It's going to be hard to fine tune numbers like this before we do our character balance pass and all the deep number crunching that will entail.  I don't think we have a good idea of what stat progression really looks like under the current rules. Between magic items, feats, class features, racial traits, and level bonuses (+1 every 4 levels), there's a lot of moving parts on stats.  This is further complicated by the fact that there's a wide variety between classes that mostly only care about one stat (alchemists, sorcerers) and classes that need a lot of stats to be decent (monks, bards, clerics, rangers).  I.e. the classes that only need one stat can specialize that stat fairly cheaply, while the multi-stat classes will need to spend a LOT to keep their mandatory stats up at useful numbers.
  3rd Infinite Bombs
 
  8th Hyper Tweaking
====Bomb Damage Draft====
  13th Mad Bomber
: {| class="ep-default" border="1" style="border-collapse:collapse; text-align:center;"
  18th Persistent Spark
|-
  23rd Carpet Bomber
! Alch Level || Dmg/Lvl || Int mod/bomb || Bomb Damage || Avg/Bomb  || 2/round avg  || 3/round avg
  28th Soulfire
|-
  33rd Flesh Warping
| 1 || 1d6+0 || +5 Int || 1d6+0 || 8.5 || 17 || 25.5
  33rd Unborn Horror
|-
| 2 || 1d6+0 || +5 Int || 2d6+0 || 12 || 24 || 36
|-
| 3 || 1d6+0 || +5 Int || 3d6+0 || 15.5 || 33 || 48.5
|-
| 4 || 1d6+0 || +5 Int || 4d6+0 || 19 || 38 || 57
|-
| 5 || 1d6+0 || +5 Int || 5d6+0 || 22.5 || 45 || 67.5
|-
| 6 || 1d6+0 || +5 Int || 6d6+0 || 26 || 52 || 78
|-
| 7 || 1d6+0 || +5 Int || 7d6+0 || 29.5 || 59 || 88.5
|-
| 8 || 1d6+1 || +5 Int || 8d6+8 || 41 || 81 || 122
|-
| 9 || 1d6+1 || +6 Int || 9d6+9 || 46.5 || 93 || 139.5
|-
| 10 || 1d6+1 || +6 Int || 10d6+10 || 51 || 102 || 153
|-
| 11 || 1d6+1 || +6 Int || 11d6+11 || 55.5 || 111 || 166.5
|-
| 12 || 1d6+1 || +7 Int || 12d6+12 || 61 || 122 || 183
|-
| 13 || 1d6+1 || +7 Int || 13d6+52 || 97.5 || 195 || 292.5
|-
| 14 || 1d6+1 || +7 Int || 14d6+56 || 105 || 210 || 315
|-
| 15 || 1d6+2 || +7 Int || 15d6+60 || 112.5 || 225 || 337.5
|-
| 16 || 1d6+2 || +8 Int || 16d6+64 || 120 || 240 || 360
|-
| 17 || 1d6+2 || +8 Int || 17d6+68 || 127.5 || 255 || 382.5
|-
| 18 || 1d6+2 || +8 Int || 18d6+72 || 135 || 270 || 405
|-
| 19 || 1d6+2 || +8 Int || 19d6+76 || 142.5 || 285 || 427.5
|-
| 20 || 1d6+2 || +10 Int || 20d6+80 || 150 || 300 || 450
|-
| 21 || 1d6+2 || +10 Int || 21d6+84 || 157.5 || 315 || 472.5
|-
| 22 || 1d6+3 || +10 Int || 22d6+88 || 165 || 330 || 495
|-
| 23 || 1d6+3 || +10 Int || 23d6+92 || 172.5 || 345 || 517.5
|-
| 24 || 1d6+3 || +11 Int || 24d6+96 || 180 || 360 || 540
|-
| 25 || 1d6+3 || +11 Int || 25d6+100 || 187.5 || 375 || 562.5
|-
| 26 || 1d6+3 || +11 Int || 26d6+104 || 195 || 390 || 585
|-
| 27 || 1d6+3 || +12 Int || 27d6+108 || 202.5 || 405 || 607.5
|-
| 28 || 1d6+4 || +12 Int || 28d6+112 || 210 || 420 || 630
|-
| 29 || 1d6+4 || +13 Int || 29d6+116 || 217.5 || 435 || 652.5
|-
| 30 || 1d6+4 || +13 Int || 30d6+120 || 225 || 450 || 675
|-
| 31 || 1d6+4 || +14 Int || 31d6+124 || 232.5 || 465 || 697.5
|-
| 32 || 1d6+4 || +14 Int || 32d6+128 || 240 || 480 || 720
|-
| 33 || 1d6+4 || +15 Int || 33d6+132 || 247.5 || 495 || 742.5
|-
| 34 || 1d6+4 || +16 Int || 34d6+136 || 255 || 510 || 765
|-
| 35 || 1d6+5 || +17 Int || 35d6+140 || 262.5 || 525 || 787.5
|}
 
====quantity of bombs====
I suggest 8 bombs per day plus 1 additional bomb per milieu above courageous (i.e. 9 bombs at heroic (level 8), 10 at valorous (level 15), 11 at mythic (level 22), and 12 at legendary (level 29)).
 
if we go to 3 bombs per round (I assume that's for haste?), we might want to bump these up to +2 per milieu above courageous...
 
====Discoveries and Grand Discoveries====
* possibly rebuild discoveries to reduce quantity available, or even map it into the 4 choices at 4 levels (16 discoveries).
* alchemists get 1 grand discovery per milieu (in the middle levels of the milieu -- 4, 11, 18, 25, and 32.  -- Need to review grand discoveries for appropriateness at all levels.
* update the infusion discovery to be just 1st and 2nd level extracts, and make more discoveries for sharing out higher level extracts.
* replace all the damage type bomb discoveries with "element bomb" "rudiment bomb" and "fundament bomb" discoveries, instead, where a single damage type of common/uncommon/rare energy is selected at time discovery is taken. Each can be taken more than once to select another damage type of the same commonality.
* grand discoveries could be a combination of several 'normal' discoveries -- e.g. 1 grand discovery = all 3 infusion discoveries; 1 grand discovery = greater and grand mutagen; 1 grand discovery = alchemical claws, prehensile organs, explosive halitosis, hyperextended joints. This would be in addition to the discoveries being available separately.
 
====Extracts====
* are alchemists spontaneous casters (create extracts on the fly) or preparation casters (create extracts at the start of the day)?  Currently, they are both, though they must have grand mutagen discovery to use (pre-prepared only) extracts in mutagen form.
 
  does mana burning make sense for alchemists? From a game mechanics point of view, do alchemists get enough extracts to make mana burning even a little tempting? (they get 56 total per day at level 35)  And from a lore point of view, does it make sense that they 'burn' multiple extracts to make one of them super-strong?  (I'll have the same question about the ranger, by the way)
 
== Alchemist Example Builds ==
(not a legal build; needs reviewed)
 
=== Bomb-Throwing Build ===
Human, base stats: Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, int 18, Wis 10, Chr 8.
 
Example Feats
 
1st Level: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot.  Lets you put your bombs exactly where you want them
 
3rd Level: Weapon Focus:Bombs.  Still making the bombs better.
 
5th Level: Extra Discovery: Acid Bombs*.  Now that the bombs go where you want them, you start to make them nassssty.
 
7th Level: Dodge.       A point of armor class and unlocks good stuff.
 
9th  Level: Close Quarters Thrower. Throw bombs in melee!
 
11th Level: Charging Hurler. Lets you keep up with the first round rush and still attack.
 
13th Level: Far Shot. Throw bombs waaaay further and still hit.
 
15th Level: Mobility. Avoid those attacks of opportunity.
 
17th Level: Shot on the Run. Pop around a corner, throw a bomb, hide. So awesome.
 
19th Level: Clustered Shots. This lets you punch through DR like crazy.
 
 
Example Discoveries:
 
2nd Level: Precise Bombs
 
4th Level: Explosive Bombs*
 
6th Level: Breath Weapon Bomb
 
8th Level: Fast Bombs
 
10th Level: Force Bomb*
 
12th Level: Demolition Bomb*
 
14th Level: Dispelling Bomb*
 
16th Level: Frost Bomb*
 
18th Level: Elixir of Life
 
20th Level: Fast Healing 5, Smoke Bomb*, Inferno Bomb*.
 
 
 
=== Hulchemist Build ===
Human, base stats: Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, int 18, Wis 10, Chr 8
 
Example Feats
 
1st Level: Dodge, Mobility. Move around in melee, get hit less, and melee sucks, you want the armor class bad.
 
3rd Level: Weapon Focus: Natural Attacks.  Yeah, you wreck'em in melee, you betcha!
 
5th Level:  Power Attack. Yeah, you wreck'em in melee, you betcha!
 
7th Level: Point Blank Shot. Still gotta work the bombs!
 
9th level: Toughness. Hit points, baby!
 
11th Level: Precise Shot. Workin' the bombs
 
13th level: Shot on the Run. The corner thing, so awesome.
 
15th Level: Rending Claws. Oh, yeah, even more melee damage
 
17th Level: Defensive Combat Training. Stops the bad guys from tackling you all the time
 
19th Level: Advanced Def Combat Training. No, seriously. Getting grappled sucks.
 
 
 
Example Discoveries:
 
2nd Level:  Alchemical Claw
 
4th Level:  Spontaneous Healing
 
6th Level:  Greater Mutagen
 
8th Level:  Vestigial Arm
 
10th Level: Vestigial Arm
 
12th Level: Grand Mutagen
 
14th Level: Tentacle
 
16th Level: True Mutagen
 
18th Level: Nauseating Flesh
 
20th Level: Alchemical Abomination, Improved Alchemical Claw, Preserve Organs.

Latest revision as of 17:52, 17 December 2020


1st	Selective (Feat)
3rd	Point-Blank Shot (Feat) 
5th	Ammo Drop (Feat)
7th	Large Target (Feat)
9th	Splash Weapon Mastery (Feat)
11th	Bomb, Improved (Feat)
13th	Weapon Focus (Feat) - Sling
15th	Prone Slinger (Feat)
17th	Rod Whisperer (Feat)
19th	Dodge (Feat)
21st	Bomb, Mighty (Feat)
23rd	Mobility (Feat)
25th	Shot on the Run (Feat)
27th	Weapon Focus, Greater (Feat) - Sling
29th	Meta-Extract (Feat)
31st	Cataclysm in a Bottle (Feat)
33rd	Annus Mirabilis (Feat)
35th	Empowering Bomb (Feat)



Discoveries 

2nd	directed bomb
4th	element bomb 
6th	dispelling bomb
8th	greater mutagen
10th	breath weapon bomb
12th	rudiment bomb
14th	fundament bomb
16th	demolition charge
18th	lesser infusion
20th	explosive bomb
22nd	greater infusion
24th	major infusion
26th	immolation bomb
28th	perfect infusion
30th	mutation mastery
32nd	delayed bomb
34th	vestigial arm



Grand Discoveries

3rd		Infinite Bombs
8th		Hyper Tweaking
13th		Mad Bomber
18th		Persistent Spark
23rd		Carpet Bomber
28th		Soulfire
33rd 		Flesh Warping
33rd		Unborn Horror
Retrieved from "https://www.epicpath.org/index.php?title=Talk:Alchemist&oldid=149771"