Talk:Monster Patterns and Roles: Difference between revisions

From Epic Path
Jump to navigation Jump to search
No edit summary
Line 110: Line 110:
* Does about 1/2 the damage as a normal
* Does about 1/2 the damage as a normal
* Same AC as regular monster (maybe a little less)
* Same AC as regular monster (maybe a little less)
* Maybe add in a vulnerability or two?
* More movement than a regular creature (+20 ft)
* More movement than a regular creature?
 
This is in response to a request for a battle with more opponents that spread out damage around the the party a little more, without doing AOE against everyone at once, with the possibility to hit the high-AC party members w/o pounding the low-AC members into pudding.
 
 
 
 
i like this new option!  more variety in the Roles is a good thing.
 
now, a way to achieve a similar result is to run a -3CR encounter (which is discussed in the rules), in which it is recommended to include twice as many mobs to maintain adequate difficulty. the MMM does not allow a -3 adjustment, partly because 'pet mobs' like mohrghs and various giants get waaaay too strong if you lower their CR without also adjusting the CR of their summoned pets. (we probably need to re-look those mobs in light of the summoned monster blueprint existing now.)
 
another thing that discourages simply -3CR-ing existing mobs, and why the MMM is a max of -2, is that higher CR monsters are inherently tougher: they have better powers that are usable more freely. limiting GM's to a -2 keeps those 'stronger' monsters reasonably usable at -2 CR without further tweaks. just changing all the values of their base numbers by moving the CR up or down does not completely capture monster design. :)
 
now, to add this new Role, I'd say no to the idea of vulnerabilities or AC changes. if they are too nasty as written, lower their hitpoints to a third, or a quarter, as part of the new Role. if we are keeping these guys stateful (unlike minions, who have effectively only 'on' and 'off'), then we have full control of how much zest they bring to the table.
 
now, all of this is dependent on RD being able to develop new Role template changes, which might be a huge bother...or not.  he's the formatting guy, and is amazing at it. :)
 
lastly: if we want to make AC or 'negative power' adjustments, we COULD put in some negative CR Patterns. (i'm not a fan of this option, which is why there are none today.) of course, this would beg the question of Pattern integration into the MMM, which i'm eager to do, although it might be too much work or too complicated to make work, i do not know.
 
all-in-all: great idea!  love the 'skirmisher' notion. :)
 
---
(RD) adding new roles isn't too bad, but it's not exactly simple either.  I'm currently working on the 1.0 character pass, and this would definitely distract from that. It would likely take me a day or so to add this, including a little debugging/testing to validate the changes.
 
(RD) It is my intention to essentially overhaul the monster template to allow the addition of up to two patterns, but that will take months, not days, and I'd prefer to do that after the 1.0 release, since it shouldn't inherently change any rules of the game (i.e. it should be transparent to players).  When I do that, I can make it a little more modular with regards to new roles or patterns being added to the game.  I was also planning, at that time, to create special fields for role-only powers, so we can clearly identify the powers we created specifically because we assumed certain monsters would always be roles.  If there are any other additions, or changes, that people would like to see the monster template do, it wouldn't hurt to start documenting those now.  (For example, we could change the way roles do extra damage from 'double' or 'triple' to some CR modifier, if we wanted, since that might scale better...)

Revision as of 20:23, 16 January 2021

  • Pretender Mage- 3 'spells' plus a teleport speed - illusionist- mass vanish, aoe illusion, (convert to a clade of fey(pixies/brownies) instead of a pattern)
  • Specter Mage - 2 spells plus a pet - necromancer - summon monster of equal CR, heartwrench multi-target, dust (convert to a clade of necromancers/add to lizardmen)


  • new pattern: Vagabond (mudskipper!) gains ability to breathe air, gains a Walk speed equal to half of Swim, Greater Swim, or Jet. can choose to change damage type to winded with attacks. otherwise as Advanced Creature can be applied to other things than aquatic creatures as the GM wishes.
  • new pattern Unkind once per round as a ranged swift, may inflict jinxed. once per round as a free action upon a successful hit (melee), may inflict hexed. all allow a Wil save to reduce one step. all place at risk, and can escalate to Cursed!


(might keep advanced and mighty as patterns, because they lend a different 'feel' to monsters, give another avenue to uniqueness in encounters. should probably keep writeups of all patterns in case MMM isn't working at some point. we should strive to make all monsters 'feel' different and interesting...unless they are very vanilla. vanilla is delicious, and serves an important purpose.)
rename 'mighty' to 'vanquisher?  hrrrm.
action items for million monster machine:
* come up with prefix names for each modified CR value (-2 CR to +5 CR) 
    * least (-2)
    * lesser (-1)
    * common (+0)
    * impressive (+1)
    * major (+2)
    * superior (+3)
    * elite (+4)
    * supreme (+5)
* review all existing monster names, and all proposed monster names, to make sure our prefixes don't lead to really dumb, unreadable names (lesser greater whompus, for example).
* move all proposed monster names to a discussion page; only actual monsters should be in the bestiary
* strip all the roles out of every monster that has a role.  
  * add language into the description that says "This monster is nearly always a <role> monster.  It is highly recommended that this role be applied to it." or whatever.
  * recode any role-specific powers into new fields that are specific to roles-only powers.  This will require me to create new fields for the template, but doesn't require a complete revamping of every monster.


  • Monster name structure:
  • Base name= Existing monster names, checked to 'make sense' "Orc Raider" (CR3)
  • CR Name= Prefixed to Base name "Elite Orc Raider" (CR7)
  • Role Name= Appended to Full Name with Spacer "Elite Orc Raider -Heavy" (CR7 heavy mob)
  • Pattern Name= Suffixed to Base Name with leading Comma "Elite Orc Raider, Coursing -Shooter" (CR10 shooter mob)
  • Multipat Names= Multiple of Pattern Name "Elite Orc Raider, Coursing, Agile -Killer" (CR13 killer mob)



  • Pattern Changes -Might not cover everything in every pattern, but it covers everything I could find.
  • 1 ) CR
  • 2 ) Size
  • 3 ) Type -Always gains a Subtype of the Pattern name. (This relates to the keywords open topic. I like keywords, but wonder how much use they are. If/when the MMM becomes a thing, could be pretty huge.)
  • 4 ) Initiative Modifier (1st skill mod)
  • 5 ) Senses - adding one or more sense types is different than a perception boost (see next)
  • 6 ) Perception Skill Modifier (2nd skill mod)
  • 7 ) AC - removing flat-footed and touch makes this much simpler, yay!
  • 8 ) Hit Dice -This is where Patterns add hit points if the CR is not changed
  • 9 ) Defensive Ability - Where things like Immune to various conditions/damage types/oddball things, new ER or DR, unique defensive powers (see agile creature for an example), bonuses to some or all saves, etc, etc, etc, is recorded. Should be added text field(s)? For maximum flexibility? Should we try to integrate this stuff into the existing template, or just make a "pattern power" addition and put this stuff in as a block of text? ER and DR needs to be calculated dynamically, and other things are as well.
  • 10 ) Out of Combat - GM hint text changes go here, if needed.
  • 11 ) Speed - Can get complex, as new movement types currently fall here, and if the base mob has that movement type already, the effect changes.
  • 12 ) Melee Attacks - This is where the Pattern is made capable at its new CR. can be replaced with a base CR change, except that leaves non-powered Patterns weak.
  • 13 ) Damage - same as melee attacks, above
  • 14 ) Space
  • 15 ) Reach
  • 16 ) Offensive Ability - Same philosophy as Defensive Ability, above.
  • 17 ) Save DC adjustment
  • X ) Ability Scores -i'm voting we drop this to simplify things, since there's no game impact and no nudge value, it's pure 'flavor'
  • 18 ) Maneuver Offense
  • 19 ) Maneuver Defense
  • X ) Feats - again, i'm saying we drop this, as it's very hard to implement, and fairly minor. we might add a generic text block saying 'add one by GM fiat if you want'
  • X ) Skills (3rd skill mod, and much more complex as it's adding 1 or more skills, rather than modding existing numbers) - still againm voting we drop this one as it's minor and hard to automate. maybe add a text message as noted for feats, if it's easy.


monster roles expansions:
  • tanks- get a taunt which pulls an enemy to them as a free/swift/move action. May also strip off a buff on the target.
  • legends- get a power which they declare at the top of the round, targeting an area on the map, and att the end of the round it goes off. This is in addition to their full normal turn on their initiative.
  • as we get into the bestiary pass, there's been a request for a different 'reset/shakeup' mechanic as used by heavies, threats, tanks, etc.
  • Possibility 1: Defense: hardened vs all damage plus Reset/Shakeup: free action forced movement attack power.
  • Possibility 2: Defense: regeneration plus Reset/Shakeup: a teleport damage power.
  • Possibility 3: Defense: bloodied value heal/temp immune plus Reset/Shakeup: damaging teleport once.

The third one is what we have today.

if we wanted to get crazy, we could mix and match, any defense plus any reset/shakeup ability, making 9 total flavors of reset power. just a thought.

RFC: Skirmisher Role

  • Counts as half a creature of the same CR for number, XP, and treasure values (i.e., 8 of them vs a party of 4 is a normal encounter)
  • Has about half the hit points of a regular creature
  • Hits about the same frequency as a normal monster
  • Does about 1/2 the damage as a normal
  • Same AC as regular monster (maybe a little less)
  • More movement than a regular creature (+20 ft)