Talk:True Dweomers: Difference between revisions

From Epic Path
Jump to navigation Jump to search
No edit summary
No edit summary
 
(65 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
Take a look at the top two [[Auric Enhancer]] items. If we only build TDs up to spell level 13, the last item in this clade is useless... just FYI --- IMO, this is why we should go with the '5 feats & 14th spell level' approach.


==System and Structure==
*damage scaling
True Dweomers do MUCH more damage than levl 9 spells, unless extensive manaburning happens. 




==System and Structure==


{| class="ep-default"
{| class="ep-default"
|+ '''New True Dweomer Damage Model'''
|+ '''New True Dweomer Damage Model'''
! Spell Circle || Burn Cost || Min Level || Base Dice|| max dice || range || avg || perfected
! Spell Strata || Burn Cost || Min Level || Base Dice|| max dice || range || avg   ||    Enhanced  ||  Maximized  ||  Max+Enh || Perfected  ||  Absolute
|-
|-
| TD1   || +1 || 21st || 1d6+6/CL || 31d6+186 || 217-372 || 294.5 || 744
| 1   || +3 || 19th || 1d6+6/CL || 35d6+210 || 245-420 || 332.5 ||   367.5    ||  420    ||    455  ||    490  ||    525
|-
|-
| TD2   || +1 || 23rd || 1d6+8/CL || 31d6+248 || 279-434 || 356.5 || 868
| 2   || +3 || 21st || 1d6+7/CL || 35d6+245 || 280-455 || 367.5 ||   402.5    ||  455    ||    490  ||    525  ||    560
|-
|-
| TD3   || +1 || 25th || 1d6+9/CL ||      32d6+288 || 320-480 || 400 || 960
| 3   || +3 || 23rd || 1d6+8/CL ||      35d6+280 || 315-490 || 402.5 ||   437.5    ||  490    ||    525  ||    560  ||    595
|-
|-
| TD4   || +1 || 27th || 1d6+10/CL ||      32d6+320    || 392-512 || 452 || 1024
| 4   || +3 || 25th || 1d6+9/CL ||      35d6+315        || 350-525 || 437.5 ||   472.5    ||  525    ||    560  ||    595  ||    630
|-
|-
| TD5   || +1 || 29th || 1d6+11/CL ||      33d6+363 || 399-561 || 480 || 1122
| 5   || +3 || 27th || 1d6+10/CL ||      35d6+350 || 385-560 || 472.5 ||   507.5    ||  560    ||    595  ||    630  ||    665
|-
|-
| TD6   || +1 || 31st || 1d6+13/CL ||       33d6+429 || 462-627 || 544.5 || 1254
| 6   || +3 || 29th || 1d6+11/CL ||     35d6+385 || 420-595 || 507.5 ||   542.5    ||  595    ||    630  ||    665  ||    700
|-
|-
| TD7   || +1 || 33rd || 1d6+15/CL ||       34d6+510 || 544-714 || 629 || 1428
| 7   || +3 || 31st || 1d6+12/CL ||     35d6+420 || 455-630 || 542.5 ||   577.5    ||  630    ||    665  ||    700  ||    735
|-
|-
| TD8 ||  +1 || 35th || 1d6+16/CL ||       34d6+544 || 588-748 || 668 || 1496
| 8 ||  +3 || 33rd || 1d6+13/CL ||     35d6+455 || 490-665 || 577.5 ||   612.5    ||  665    ||    700  ||    735  ||    770
|-
|-
| TD9 ||  +1 || 37th || 1d6+17/CL ||      35d6+595 || 630-805 || 717.5 || 1610
| 9 ||  +3 || 35+ || 1d6+14/CL ||      35d6+490 || 525-700 || 612.5 ||   647.5    ||  700    ||    735  ||    770  ||    805
|}
|}


True Dweomers are affected by metamagic feats, but note that many of the more potent feats have such a large level adjustment, they cannot be fit onto the higher level true dweomers without use of a magic wand or spell research.
===Things that can be spell buffed===


*initiative = enchant
*death checks (minor) = necro
*Maneuver Offense = trans
*Maneuver Defense = abj
*Maneuver Damage adders (scale this HEAVY) = abj
*Maneuver Damage bonus Dice (scale this HEAVY) = evoc


*+to-hit (major) = ill
*Melee to-hit = trans
*ranged to-hit = trans
*spell(ray) to-hit = necro




*range
Adders to
*All damage (major!!) = evoc
*melee dam = trans
*ranged dam = ench
*ray dam = ill
*spell dam  (major!) = ill


true Dweomers can use any range


Damage dice added to
*All damage (major!!) = abj
*melee dam = trans
*ranged dam = conj
*ray dam = ill
*spell dam  (major!) = ench


*area of effect


true dweomers with AOE's tend to be LARGE, up to thousands of feet, miles, even leagues.  note that metamagic can make even that larger.
bonuses to  
*weapon Crit range = trans
*weapon crit severity = necr
*weapon Crit bonus dice = ench
*weapon crit numeric adders = ill
*skill crit range = ench
*skill crit severity = ill
* skill rolls (+1 to +2)


*saves
Move
*All Move (Major!) = tran
*Walk: walk, run, double move 5-ft steps, brachiate = minor = trans, conj
*Swim: lesser, greater, jet = ench, trans
*Fly: lesser, greater = necro, conj
*Hover, Vault = ench, conj
*Teleport: lesser, greater (major) = evoc, abj
*Burrow, earth glide? nobuffs!


true dweomers follow the basic rule 'no auto effects', but may impose severe save penalties in exchange for smaller range and/or area of effect, to the extreme of the example below "Corrupt Dweomers"
==Current status==
* True Dweomers - data compilation complete




==TD Template==


<pre>
{{Template:TD


==Current status==
| Level=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Level}}}
* True Dweomers - data compilation begun
| Level|
* Interoperate with Abstract actions/become ritual magics?
}}</onlyinclude>
* Some casting times measured as a standard action usable in Real-Time, some casting times measured in Intervals?
* Require skill rolls vs DC's to cast? (Old idea, but, it kind of works with the new systems pretty good....)
* Example, to cast a True Dweomer in combat time requires a Bailiwick Skill Roll vs a Challenging DC for the Caster level.
* Casting a True Dweomer as a ritual takes much longer and more 'stuff' (magic circle, altar, implements and unguents, horrifying sacrifices, etc) but does not require a bailiwick skill roll.


==Examples of new True Dweomers==
| School=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|School}}}
* '''10th'''  Corrupt Dweomers: Target a foe, any items they have no longer give them a bonus until the end of the encounter. If the items have a CL of 20 or below, there is no roll.  If the items have a CL of 21 or higher, make a [[Caster Check]] vs a target of 10+ the CL of each item.  If it succeeds, the item no longer gives a bonus until the end of the encounter.  If it fails, there is no effect.
| School|
}}</onlyinclude>


old example, but you get the idea
| Components=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Components}}}
| Components|
}}</onlyinclude>


* '''11th'''
| Range=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Range}}}
| Range|
  <!-- Values: Self, Touch, Close, Medium, Long, or anything else -->
}}</onlyinclude>


* '''12th'''
| Target=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Target}}}
| Target|
}}</onlyinclude>


* '''13th'''  Accursed Dweomers: As Corrupt Dweomers, except any affected items inflict a penalty equal to their normal bonus until the end of the encounter.
| Duration=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Duration}}}
| Duration|
  <!-- Values: Instant, Concentration, 1Round, Combat, Encounter, Day, Moon, Year, or anything else -->
}}</onlyinclude>


* '''14th'''
| Save=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Save}}}
| Save|
  <!-- Values: None,
      FortHalf, FortNegates, HFortHalf (for "Harmless (Fort for half damage)"), HFortNegates,
      ReflHalf, ReflNegates, HReflHalf, HReflNegates,
      WillHalf, WillNegates, HWillHalf, HWillNegates, or anything else
  -->
}}</onlyinclude>


==Examples of new Feats==
| Save-DC=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Save-DC}}}
: Truemagic Feats
| Save-DC|
:*  Truemagic Scribe    - learn two new true dweomers of 10th level
   <!-- Values: None, Weak, Strong, Hybrid, or anything else -->
:*  Truemagic Supplicant - learn three new true dweomers of 10th or 11th levels
}}</onlyinclude>
:*  Truemagic Ordained   - learn five new true dweomers of 10th thru 12th levels
:*  Truemagic Nominate  - learn eight new true dweomers of 10th thru 13th levels
:*  Truemagic Magus      - learn thirteen new true dweomers of 10th thru 14th levels
this model has 5 TD levels, and gives 31 TD spells for 5 feats


-OR-
| Lays-Charge=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Lays-Charge}}}
| Lays-Charge|
  <!-- Values: Y, or leave blank -->
}}</onlyinclude>


:*  Truemagic Scribe    - learn three new true dweomers of 10th level
| Lays-Dual-Charge=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Lays-Dual-Charge}}}
:*  Truemagic Supplicant - learn five new true dweomers of 10th or 11th levels
| Lays-Dual-Charge|
:*  Truemagic Nominate   - learn eight new true dweomers of 10th thru 12th levels
   <!-- Values: Y, or leave blank -->
:*  Truemagic Magus      - learn thirteen new true dweomers of 10th thru 13th levels
}}</onlyinclude>
  this model has only 4 TD levels, leaving more room for metamagic, and gives 29 TD spells for four feats


| Charge-Notes=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Charge-Notes}}}
| Charge-Notes|
}}</onlyinclude>


IMO, picking out 21 spells at once, because you took a feat, is a bit much.  Depending on how many True Dweomers you intend to write, I would suggest that each feat give access to between 3 and 5 (for a total of 12 to 20 if you take them all), while also allowing access to higher level TD's.  This would limit the amount of picking and choosing, and also keep TD's both desirable and seemingly rare.
| SR=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|SR}}}
| SR|
  <!-- Values: Y, or leave blank -->
}}</onlyinclude>


how about that? :)
| Description =


do you have any sense of how many TD's you plan to write up? Is it ~50? ~100?  IMO, in any given campaign, no one should be able to acquire more than about 10% of the TD's available, even if they take all the feats.  This allows for replayability, forces tough choices, etc.
| ShortDesc=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|ShortDesc}}}
| ShortDesc|
}}</onlyinclude>


| Reviewed=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Reviewed}}}
| Reviewed|
<!-- Values: N (not reviewed) or Y (reviewed); blank defaults to "N" -->
}}</onlyinclude>


maybe a hundred or two? i've found source material for several hundred, and most of them are such junk it'll have to be completely gutted and re-written, but there are interesting names and concepts galore.  we'll see when we get there, i'm just spitballing on this right now.
}}
</pre>

Latest revision as of 12:40, 23 February 2022


System and Structure

New True Dweomer Damage Model
Spell Strata Burn Cost Min Level Base Dice max dice range avg Enhanced Maximized Max+Enh Perfected Absolute
1 +3 19th 1d6+6/CL 35d6+210 245-420 332.5 367.5 420 455 490 525
2 +3 21st 1d6+7/CL 35d6+245 280-455 367.5 402.5 455 490 525 560
3 +3 23rd 1d6+8/CL 35d6+280 315-490 402.5 437.5 490 525 560 595
4 +3 25th 1d6+9/CL 35d6+315 350-525 437.5 472.5 525 560 595 630
5 +3 27th 1d6+10/CL 35d6+350 385-560 472.5 507.5 560 595 630 665
6 +3 29th 1d6+11/CL 35d6+385 420-595 507.5 542.5 595 630 665 700
7 +3 31st 1d6+12/CL 35d6+420 455-630 542.5 577.5 630 665 700 735
8 +3 33rd 1d6+13/CL 35d6+455 490-665 577.5 612.5 665 700 735 770
9 +3 35+ 1d6+14/CL 35d6+490 525-700 612.5 647.5 700 735 770 805

Things that can be spell buffed

  • initiative = enchant
  • death checks (minor) = necro
  • Maneuver Offense = trans
  • Maneuver Defense = abj
  • Maneuver Damage adders (scale this HEAVY) = abj
  • Maneuver Damage bonus Dice (scale this HEAVY) = evoc
  • +to-hit (major) = ill
  • Melee to-hit = trans
  • ranged to-hit = trans
  • spell(ray) to-hit = necro


Adders to

  • All damage (major!!) = evoc
  • melee dam = trans
  • ranged dam = ench
  • ray dam = ill
  • spell dam (major!) = ill


Damage dice added to

  • All damage (major!!) = abj
  • melee dam = trans
  • ranged dam = conj
  • ray dam = ill
  • spell dam (major!) = ench


bonuses to

  • weapon Crit range = trans
  • weapon crit severity = necr
  • weapon Crit bonus dice = ench
  • weapon crit numeric adders = ill
  • skill crit range = ench
  • skill crit severity = ill
  • skill rolls (+1 to +2)

Move

  • All Move (Major!) = tran
  • Walk: walk, run, double move 5-ft steps, brachiate = minor = trans, conj
  • Swim: lesser, greater, jet = ench, trans
  • Fly: lesser, greater = necro, conj
  • Hover, Vault = ench, conj
  • Teleport: lesser, greater (major) = evoc, abj
  • Burrow, earth glide? nobuffs!

Current status

  • True Dweomers - data compilation complete


TD Template

{{Template:TD

| Level=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Level}}}
| Level|
}}</onlyinclude>

| School=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|School}}}
| School|
}}</onlyinclude>

| Components=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Components}}}
| Components|
}}</onlyinclude>

| Range=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Range}}}
| Range|
  <!-- Values: Self, Touch, Close, Medium, Long, or anything else -->
}}</onlyinclude>

| Target=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Target}}}
| Target|
}}</onlyinclude>

| Duration=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Duration}}}
| Duration|
  <!-- Values: Instant, Concentration, 1Round, Combat, Encounter, Day, Moon, Year, or anything else -->
}}</onlyinclude>

| Save=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Save}}}
| Save|
  <!-- Values: None, 
       FortHalf, FortNegates, HFortHalf (for "Harmless (Fort for half damage)"), HFortNegates, 
       ReflHalf, ReflNegates, HReflHalf, HReflNegates, 
       WillHalf, WillNegates, HWillHalf, HWillNegates, or anything else 
   -->
}}</onlyinclude>

| Save-DC=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Save-DC}}}
| Save-DC|
  <!-- Values: None, Weak, Strong, Hybrid, or anything else -->
}}</onlyinclude>

| Lays-Charge=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Lays-Charge}}}
| Lays-Charge|
  <!-- Values: Y, or leave blank -->
}}</onlyinclude>

| Lays-Dual-Charge=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Lays-Dual-Charge}}}
| Lays-Dual-Charge|
  <!-- Values: Y, or leave blank -->
}}</onlyinclude>

| Charge-Notes=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Charge-Notes}}}
| Charge-Notes|
}}</onlyinclude>

| SR=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|SR}}}
| SR|
  <!-- Values: Y, or leave blank -->
}}</onlyinclude>

| Description = 

| ShortDesc=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|ShortDesc}}}
| ShortDesc|
}}</onlyinclude>

| Reviewed=<onlyinclude>{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|Reviewed}}}
| Reviewed|
<!-- Values: N (not reviewed) or Y (reviewed); blank defaults to "N" -->
}}</onlyinclude>

}}
Retrieved from "https://www.epicpath.org/index.php?title=Talk:True_Dweomers&oldid=169791"