Talk:Epic Path: Difference between revisions

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===Cargo Maunderings===
===Cargo Maunderings===
* '''Question for ATB:''' If a monster has type/subtype/subtype2/subtype3, etc. values, besides displaying all subtypes in the header for the monster page, should each subtype's "strong against" and "weak against" values be applied to the template? In many cases these are repetitive, and there's no easy way to cull duplicates. For example, if we have (extreme example) an undead roach swarm (undead type, swarm subtype, vermin subtype2), there are quite a few "strong against" values that would occur.   
Okay, after some testing, I'm making some changes to the way the variables work on the Monster Template.  This will shortly be reflected in the Verbose Template.
* instead of variables, you'll use templates to insert values into the special abilities.
:* Example: '''<nowiki>{{Primary-Dmg}}</nowiki>''' provides the primary melee damage of the creature, as a damage string (e.g. 6d8+1).
* If you want to nudge the CR of the template, you add a first parameter.
:* Example: '''<nowiki>{{Primary-Dmg|-2}}</nowiki>''' provides the primary melee damage of the creature as if it were two CR's lower, as a damage string (e.g. 5d8+2).
* If you want to nudge the numeric value of the template based on the CR, you skip the first parameter, and add a second one.
:* Example: '''<nowiki>{{Primary-Dmg||+2}}</nowiki>''' provides a damage value two points higher than the primary melee damage of the creature, as a damage string (e.g. 6d8+3).
::* This will automatically upconvert dice if appropriate.
::* Note the double pipe ("||") in the template call, which skips the first parameter.
::* While you can use both the CR nudge and the numeric nudge at the same time, you will have no idea what the result will be. It's too crazy to contemplate.
* If you want to nudge the numeric value but you don't simply want to add or subtract, you use the third parameter. 
:* Values for this are "mult" and "div" for multiply and divide.   
:* Add and subtract can already be achieved with positive and negative numbers.
:* Example: '''<nowiki>{{Primary-Dmg||2|mult}}</nowiki>''' provides double the damage for the primary melee damage of the creature.
* If you want to change the die size of the damage output, you can use the fourth parameter.
:* Example: '''<nowiki>{{Primary-Dmg||||d10}}</nowiki>''' will output the damage using d10's instead of the default d8's.


for the record, an undead roach swarm is AWESOME. omg, I love this game :)
To summarize:
* {{Name of Template | CR-Mod | Numeric-Mod | Operand-Mod | Die-Size Mod }}
* all parameters after the first are optional.


: In my opinion, we should only display the "strong against" and "weak against" values for the type and subtype, not subtype2 through subtype5.  Looking through a list of 25 strong against values as a GM isn't actually useful, especially if many of the values repeatWe can use subtype2 through subtype5 as a way to auto-create categories, and to further search for the monsters.  If we feel the monster really NEEDS some special ability due to one of its additional subtypes, it can always be manually added.
I think this completely fixes any nudge values we could ever possibly wantWhat do you think?


  I agree.  As a matter of fact, would it be possible to not list those at all in the displayed blueprint, and give a link out instead?  heck, it could always be the same link to an aggregation page, for all I care. that info is not terribly useful in front of your face, but providing a link to go look it up quickly would be useful
  Note: not implemented yet, but will be soon, unless you scream bloody murder.


  (RD) hmm, I actually really like having the list of immunities and weaknesses right in the monster, I just don't want 6 subtypes' worth of immunities and weaknesses listed, ever. It would be longer than the rest of the monster entryHowever, for JUST type/subtype, I think it's useful info to have attached to the monsterIt's not the sort of thing I'm ever likely to memorize, and I hate clicking through to stuff if I don't have to (what if I want to print it out?).
  Also, I know your first question: "What does this get us?". The answer is, I can remove 108 variables and 108 fields from the monster template, once we've combed through the monsters to remove all uses of the nudge fields. It also makes each of the variables FAR more versatile, but also still very simple to useIf you just want to put a non-nudged CR value into the template, you just put '''<nowiki>{{CR}}</nowiki>'''.  Furthermore, these will work anywhere inside of a monster template, such as when applying DR values (use '''<nowiki>{{Hit-Dice}}</no-wiki>''').


  (RD) However, if you wanted to get together to look things over and see if we could present the information more concisely, I'd be open to that.
  For that matter, you can even use them OUTSIDE of the monster template, by assigning the CR as the first parameter (since no CR value is present, your adder to the CR becomes the CR).
 
* also, cargo is broken as hell, and I'm pretty much thinking we should give up on it.
 
uhoh.  dangit! I was getting really excited about the capabilities there. :(
 
:* I haven't completely given up on Cargo yet, but it's really horked right now, so my next steps are:
::* ask Rick to purge all the table data for cargo directly from the database (server-side, not wiki-side).
::* cull as many fields out of the monster template as possible, without compromising any functionality, or forcing us to (immediately) fix any monsters. 
:::* This will be necessary if we ever want Cargo to work, since 450 columns is apparently more than cargo can handle, by a significant margin.
:::* Plus, it makes me happy to cut things down a bit; the template is needlessly bloated.
 
:* to that end, as I mentioned last night, I want to replace all the "nudge" fields in the special abilities with #expr (math) and variables directly in the text of the description of the special abilities.  This will require some manual reviews of each monster, and once done, I can delete those fields forever!!!
::* This means a modified variable will look something like this: '''<nowiki>{{#expr:{{#var:To-Hit}}+3}}</nowiki>'''.  Of course, if you don't want to nudge the value, you can just use the variable: '''<nowiki>{{#var:To-Hit}}</nowiki>'''.
:* however, the damage fields are oddballs, because they're not numbers, but text. Namely, "3d6+2" isn't a number, so you can't alter it with #expr.
::* we could convert them from numbers to dice after the #expr, which would look like this: '''<nowiki>{{D6-Dmg|transcludesection={{#expr:{{#var:Alpha-Dmg}}+4}}}}</nowiki>'''.  This gives us the power to choose which die-size the damage uses, if we care, and we can use any standard math operand (+, -, *, or /) to manipulate the variable's base value.
::* alternatively, I could change the damage numbers from variables to sub-templates, which you call to insert a damage number.  The only parameter on the template (other than the name of the template itself), would be a numeric nudge value of the number of CR's you wanted to modify the damage value by, and it's completely optional.  Example: '''<nowiki>{{Template:Ranged-Damage|-2}}</nowiki>''' would give the ranged damage for a monster 2 CR's lower than the monster you use this template in.  This seems to me to keep things as close to how they currently work as possible.  The die-size would be fixed based on the damage type being called (swifts use d6's, standards use d8s, alphas use d10's, etc.).
::* Do you care which option we use? does one appear easier/more intuitive/more useful than the other?


==Stateless Time==
==Stateless Time==

Revision as of 21:27, 7 December 2017