Talk:Epic Path

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  • need to add size limitations or modifiers for drag, reposition, bull rush
  • need to create wands for the new selective metamagic feat
  • need to create wands for the new multi-target feats

  • update in-combat skill assist language (no penalty on fail, since it costs a standard action)
  • Update any monsters that use Grabbed, Grappled, or Pinned (find them using the "What Links Here" from each of those pages).
  • Consider adding weapon quality that allows better grapple maneuvers
  • Consider high-level feat that allows Pinned condition on a particularly good grapple check (maybe change it so it's Grabbed when you equal or beat the DC, Grappled when you beat the DC by 3 or more, and Pinned when you beat the DC by 6 or more? Currently, it's Grabbed when you equal or beat the DC, and Grappled if you beat the DC by 5 or more, with no chance for pinned.)
fix init and skills and "all other skills" values in monster template, when a pattern is applied
  • fix the spell template so it substitutes text into the table (will require page rebuilds so table data is actually local)
  • add comment in Character Advancement to mention to check Skill Basis increases (every 4 levels) and Maneuver Defense increases (every even level)
  • re-write first sentence of Monk Water and Stone to clarify what it applies to (to-hits AND damage? to-hits OR damage?)

random thought for class feature

  • dice as input influencers, instead of output influencers. I.e. roll dice to see what you can do, then do some of those things efficiently (no dice to determine outcome, only dice to determine what is possible).

2 new warlord feats

  • formation dice now lay temp hit points on ally and heal them, instead of granting bonus damage to their attack; still requires them to hit an enemy creature first
  • (requires first feat) formation dice now do two of the following three things: grant bonus damage, grant temp hit points, heal the target ally; still requires target to hit an enemy creature first. warlord picks this every time they use it.

New Magic Weapon Properties

primarily intended for implement wielders, but are also useful to multi-classers

  • Runic: +1 property that grants the Implement (Quality) to the weapon it is applied to (one-off)
  • Excinding: +3 property to allow wielder to use their ranged to-hit bonus for melee attacks with that weapon (one-off)
  • Excising: +3 property to allow wielder to use their melee to-hit bonus for ranged attacks with that weapon (one-off)
  • +3, +5, +7, +9 properties that lower the level increase caused by metamagic feats applied to spells while that weapon is being wielded (-1 to -4)
  • Competent, Professional, Professorial, Authoritative
  • +2, +4, +6, +8 properties that increases the save DC of spells or class features while it is being wielded (+1 to +4)
  • Visceral, Intuitive, Instinctive, Reflexive
  • Spellblade: +1 property that lets wielder add the weapon's base weapon damage to any spell damage they inflict while wielding that weapon
  • Hexblade: +3 property that lets wielder add their full weapon damage (includes any stat bonuses to the weapon's attack type: ranged or melee) to any spell damage they inflict while wielding the weapon
  • Baneblade: +5 property that lets wielder add bonus damage from class features, such as sneak attack, formation, encroachment, etc, on top of their full weapon damage to any spell they cast while wielding the weapon, if target qualifies for that bonus damage.

new magic item

  • ring that lets you apply magic armor properties, but only if you don't have anything else equipped that can take magic armor properties. (Cost should double the cost of magic armor properties if they were just applied to armor.)

lore updates?

  • update all the monster template sub-templates (e.g. To-Hit, Save-DC, Special-Standard-Dmg, etc.) so that if "Lore" is in the page title, it replaces the value with "REDACTED"
  • then create a new 'full lore' auto-page that shows the basic lore, strong against, weak against, all special abilities, and out-of-combat sections, redacting out all the numerical values.

miss chance - final thoughts?

  • Concealment / miss chance should apply to combat maneuver (skill) checks, and any skill that has a 'physical manifestation'.


  • write the actual rules for traps on the Traps and Hazards page
  • create a list of all traps (somewhere)
  • create a list of all complications (somewhere)
  • redo all class features related to traps
  • find all spells or effects that inflict 'anti-magic', and update them with language that traps are only disabled by these effects until the start of the caster's next turn. (This should also be in the traps page writeup, and maybe even on the trap itself).
  • create some traps
  • create some complications
  • then, FINALLY, ask Ben to make "The ConTRAPtion" (font:


  • players get reputation, settlements get influence
  • player reputation can be general (very powerful) or specific (less powerful)
  • reputation is a value from +1 to whatever, and is a straight-up circumstance bonus to any social interaction skill check with the affected party
  • this is why general reputation is so powerful -- it's a permanent skill boost for all social interactions
  • specific reputation (e.g. with a merchant you've had positive business experiences with) makes it easier to get good deals, get quality intel, etc.
  • should generally be rewarded for actual role-playing, as a way to encourage that sort of thing, but can also be given out as a taste of what's possible...
  • reputation doesn't have to be positive, of course...

Campaign Setting

  • Something you've done in your campaigns a lot is to use the same setting (Celegia) but set the game in different time periods in its history. This has several advantages:
  • it lets you explore some fairly substantially different settings while still maintaining some familiarity
  • it lets you flesh out the history of the setting more thoroughly through the players' actions
  • Once we've settled on a setting (Reist, Celegia, whatever), I think, before we worry about modules, we should establish five 'timeframes' where adventuring within the history of that setting is recommended (let's call them Epochs or something)
  • within each Epoch, we should build a panoply of NPCs that are iconic and important during those times (there may even be crossovers, especially for long-lived races/characters).
  • we should also have a list of adventure hooks for each epoch, to seed the GM with ideas
  • we should have a player's guide to each epoch to paint the picture of what life is like in each, and what sorts of adventures to expect therein.
  • we should then provide some guidance to GMs to allow the outcomes of adventures in one epoch to influence the history of future (or even past) epochs
  • once all this is done, we can consider writing a starting module or two

One thing I'd really like to include in whatever setting we use is the notion of a mysterious predecessor race that liked to build complicated things, especially underground. This wouldn't be the origin of all dungeons, or anything like that, but a source of some rare dungeons that are more likely to hold Potens Machenvar.

Potens Machenvar

  • On the topic of Potens Machenvar, how would you feel about nearly all of these being (extremely) limited use?
  • Basically, each time you use the PM, you have to roll a d6 to see if it breaks or crumbles to dust. The less powerful PMs might only crumble on a roll of a 1, but the really good ones would always crumble (i.e. on a 6 or less).
  • This flows well with the 'mysterious predecessor race' theme, where these are ancient devices of uncertain and irreplaceable origin, that still function even after millennia of neglect, but are prone to breaking down. Since no one knows how to fix them, once broken, they are basically trash (or they could turn into one portion of sellable goods, if we're feeling generous, and want players to just use them like candy).
  • By going with a system like this, these things could actually show up in a campaign with some regularity, if a GM so chooses, without upsetting the balance of the game too much. They'll definitely upset the balance of a single encounter, but that's kind of the whole point, really.

Breaking Objects

  • Sunders against terrain objects (not unattended objects) changes their terrain states: Blocked → Impeded → Difficult → Unobstructed/Clear. This lets us redo the breaking objects rules to get rid of the language related to the very outdated Abstract Encounter rules, while still maintaining a useful time-scale for doing things like tearing down walls. Sunder DCs will need to be brought back in line with the Skill DC chart.
  • In general, I think terrain objects should have a very low sunder DC (like 15), since anybody who knows how to swing a pickaxe should be able to make their way through it eventually. The variable we need to talk about is Durability -- how many rounds would it take a dude with a pickaxe to turn a 5-foot section of castle wall from 'Blocked' terrain to 'Impeded' terrain? Each state change should, in my opinion, take the same amount of time (mostly for simplicity).
  • We can also talk about things like Assists (possibly mandatory for large-scale works like sapping a castle wall?), and time, and how much effort a non-hero can really put into performing sunders per hour.
  • We already have a rule that you can only perform a single combat maneuver per round, so even level 35 heroes are limited to 1 sunder per 6 seconds, assuming we don't put further limitations on this.
  • We can talk about siege weapons later; I don't think we should factor them into this conversation -- I'd rather make them work organically with the system after the fact.
i think i violently agree with all of this :)  The terrain progression is just awesome, as it makes all sorts of possibilities just happen. (we could have difficult terrain 'splash' from the site of siege attacks, to represent debris fields, for example)  the difficulties in the charts were partially converted to 'DC at CR' format already, which I tentatively agree with as our model moving forward.  siege could/should be last, so we can scale those devices properly against DC's, which already should have CR coded into them to gain the proper numbers.  siege and settlements could include a possible vehicle pass as well.

Notes / To Do

  • random loot generation
  • random remnant generation (a built-in roller would be cool)
  • We could also consider making 'civilized' versus 'uncivilized' treasure parcels for monsters (could be keyed off of the monster's INT stat, meaning no changes to existing monsters, just changes to the main template), which would affect whether some of the treasure was in coins, gems, trade goods, versus just 'sellable goods' (read: goopy bits).
  • treasure idea: in addition to remnants, other currencies could drop (settlement currencies, magic item upgrades, eggs (for mounts), etc.), maps to other locations of interest, a way to spawn specific encounters. This would also be a good way to put single-use magic items into the game (which could be anything from a bottle of alchemist's fire to a scroll that calls a deific champion to help you for one round, or a genie that grants you a single wish).
  • need to issue guidelines for adapting content from other systems? the heavy/legend roles might need to be emphasized for conversion tasks
  • revisit the Vehicle Combat rules. Clean up, simplify, and remove language about multiple piloting skills, stat dependency on ship class, etc. Perhaps vehicles should perform like magic weapons (enhance bonus, properties, dweomermetal) that the pilot 'wields' to attack. This would allow the use of to-hit rolls, instead of maneuver checks for attacking. Try to make the system more like traditional combat... maybe figure out a way to remove facing.
  • figure out a way to make the bailiwicks more distinct from their associated knowledge skills. In some cases, it's not bad (Spycraft vs Know:Local), but in many cases, it's ambiguous (Reason vs. Know:Logic; Naturalism vs. Know:Nature, etc.)
  • consider cross-referencing all the between adventures into each of the appropriate skills.
  • clean up weapon page tables, adding categories for their weapon groups, handiness, and size.
  • update monster template to account for adding a role to a monster with a modified # of attacks

Feats With No Associated Class this category serves as a handy reference for old feats to be re-worked into potential magic items

Possible New Feats:

  • Bard
  • crowd pleaser - the bard may target one additional target with their Bardic Performances. This feat may be taken more than once, each time increasing the number of affected targets by 1.
  • Druid
  • Ranger
  • Partisan
  • introvert - 6th - add partisan level to healing
  • solipsist - 16th - add partisan tier as dr/er
  • surveillance - 26th - add introspection/introvert/solipsist to allies in aura
  • caltrops - add partisan level in damage against any attacked foe in aura, once per attack, hit or miss
  • trap damage table?
  • re-write perform skill to collapse it into a single skill (instead of subskills).
  • Perform: performance complexity - clarify to setting the CR of the song
  • same for entertaining an audience
  • need a note in the ability scores page (and probably the caster pages) that you can't get spells of a higher level than your class level allows, even with a high stat.
  • add new status conditions that inflict a circle penalty (or alter existing conditions to include it)
  • create a "circle 0" and update the various mana burning rules for it.
  • Update Between Adventures section on Spell Research to clarify language about adding metamagic to a researched spell -- metamagic added /can/ increase the gross spell level above 17, just not be added as research to produce an infinitely metamagicked spell.

  • Character Sheet:
  • PDF Character Sheet (Fillable) -- yes, this will happen
  • create sample characters for each class, with planned builds up through level 5

  • Monsters:
  • create at least 10 per CR. Still need CR's 19 through 40, but CR's 1 - 18 are done enough for now. currently working on this effort, but with an emphasis of CR's 1-5 (aiming for 20+ for all those CR's), since the MMM makes higher CR's richly populated by default. still need at least 10 for CR's 19-40

  • Setting:
  • Cosmology of Creation page should be tailored to suit our view of the campaign setting. If we try to keep it 'generic', it will feel hollow.
  • decide how the many races factor into our default setting. Are all the races treated as normal citizens, or are some discriminated against (half-orcs, for example)? Are non-human races (in particular the oddball ones) sometimes born to human parents, or are they only products of their own purebred lineages?

Cleanup Tasks

  • Finish moving the following into their respective templates:
  • fighter tactics
  • Equipment pages -- finish them, clean out the stupid stuff
  • finish the Designing Skill Challenges section on the Game Master's Guide page.
  • add some notes to the Spells page, regarding GM's adjudicating 'fluff' vs 'crunch'.
  • Specific examples are direct damage (crunch) vs. illusions (fluff).
  • Rules for bonuses from fluff which give general 'not to exceed' values.
  • plus for caster level (+1 to +3), and plus for creativity (+1 to +2).
  • need to update / create page for monster types and subtypes.
  • need to review any broken links to subtypes that we don't actually want to define (e.g. azata)
  • create a "tactical" keyword and category that would identify feats, abilities, skill uses, etc. that are very dependent on a map, and wouldn't work well in a 'theater of the mind' game.

Bonus Systems

  • Settlements and Sieges
  • Epic Skill System
  • Followers / Leadership / Large-Scale War Rules
  • Auramancy / Blood Magic
  • Divine Domains (any character class; part of pre-apotheosis)
  • True Dweomers
  • Prestige Classes
  • Artifacts
  • Traps (as enemy combatants)
  • Remnants

Printable Version

  • Need some cover art for a book(let)s. Open to suggestions...
  • leaning towards a 5.5" x 8" book size as our 'starter guide' for cons, ~80 half-pages, for everything: how to play, character classes, equipment, weapons, low-level magic items, status conditions, basically everything you'd need to play up to level 5-ish. Interior will not have art, unless we really want to commission some.
  • Needs to be everything you need to know to play the game (at low levels), without access the internet or the wiki.
  • shouldn't have links or other web-based 'features', and it will need a table of contents and an index.
  • Short appendix that describes some of the other features that are available in the complete game on the wiki.
  • Found some online print sites that will do this for about $10/book, so 20 of these per convention would be about $200 which doesn't seem crazy to me.
  • will give these out to anyone who plays through the module.
  • pre-generated characters on no more than 4 pages each, printed on cardstock?
  • Will give these out to anyone who played that class through the module.
  • should be designed as a good party mix, rather than just 1 of each class; assume somewhere between 5 and 8 players.
  • a module we can run in 4-ish hours that shows off the best parts of our game -- skills, character class uniqueness, dynamic and fun combats, including a 'threat' fight as the finale. Characters should probably be level 1, but I'm willing to consider up to level 3 if there's a good reason to go there.
  • needs to have good opportunities to role-play, opportunities to use skills in an interesting way, and some fun set pieces for the combat encounters.

Siege Weapons / Settlements Notes

  • review 'breaking objects' page, in light of changes to vehicle combat and removal of abstract encounters rules
  • siege weapons - how do they work with the vehicle combat rules?
    • unless we want siege weapons to continue to be cumulative forces, though it seems like people hated all the dice rolling of the abstract encounters
    • right now, vehicles will never penetrate heavy defenses and fortifications; the target DC's are way too high, as are many of the durabilities
  • add weights for all doors and such on the 'breaking objects' page, for purposes of the Might skill.

moving these links to here for future re-write/inclusions/expansion, possibly/probably as part of settlement pass

Possible New Character Classes

  • Physical Adept class (Fleshcrafter?) - arcane-powered melee, re-tool eidolon-style abilities as self-buffs?
  • Mentat Warsage Storm Knight class - intelligence-based melee and thrown weapons user.
  • can 'game out a fight' -- may declare at any point in a round that they have not yet dealt any damage (even after one or more failed attacks) that they are simply gaming out the fight, forgoing all damage for the remainder of the round. In exchange, they gain a massive buff in the following round against that opponent.
  • Toxotes - high damage ranged attacks, trick shots (possibly just create via new rogue talents?)
  • Galvanist - sorceror/prowler/alchemist, focus on The Spark as a way to empower things (weaps/armor/potions) with sparks and essence
  • Seeker - sorceror/ranger/prowler, has 'target/treasures' they are looking for, can have up to five, each treasure/target allows them to activate a diff power/class feature, they have to pick new ones as they find old ones or they lose powers
  • Templar - arcane/urban fighter//paladin striker/tank, much stronger if has a place to defend or a crusade to advance. Can use a taunting variant of mirror image (can't attack, but taunts and soaks up a hit or two).
  • Effigy (Artifact? Vestige?)
  • the character is an actual artifact, which is intelligent. The actual artifact is /somewhere/, though even the player may not know where. They have extended their consciousness into a remote effigy (moppet?) with which they interact with the world. look at material for the warforged as inspiration?
  • they can use their experience to augment their effigy, giving it better abilities
  • like a summoner or pet class, except that the master isn't present on the battlefield
  • Assassin: inflicts and spreads bruise/bleeds/ruptures; can end all effects to deal that much damage to all enemies (even non-bleeding ones)
  • Horolog master of clockworks, makes ether-powered devices that do stuff (attacks, defenses, pets, buffs, move, mounts?) the martial-version of an alchemist
  • Oracle divine-powered sorcerer/paladin, has the ability to give blessings, lays curses, has no heal but can absorb damage from allies in a radius and lay on hands. sorcerer/cleric/paladin hybrid with unique damage transfer power+
  • Jinx: can store up and use failed d20 checks (to-hits, saves, etc.) to unleash powerful curses and debuffs. Encouraged to take wild risks in order to miss more (and have that wild payoff when they don't fail).

Reminder links to complete additional classes at future date

Ideas For Class Features

  • Death Attack (Ex) prowler, ranger, partisan, warlord? x times/day perform a magnum-size hit like monk?
  • Swift Death (Ex) same classes as candidates, add more times per day
  • Angel of Death (Ex) use up all death attacks to roll a coup de grace
  • Live to Tell the Tale (Ex) barbarian, partisan, brawler? x times/day roll maneuver offense vs attackers maneuver defense to negate a hit
  • Elaborate Attack (Ex) bard, paladin, rogue, fighter? spend a full BAB attack roll (or any 5-foot step?) to trigger a class feature (finale for bard, smite for pally, sneak for rogue, challenge for fighter?)
  • Spell Critical (Su) sorc, wiz, druid? if confirms a critical with an attack, can cast a spell as a swift action. aimed at rays, but leave open-ended for dual/multi/prestiges
  • Inspiring Demeanor (Ex) bard, cleric, fighter, paladin, warlord? roll maneuver offense against the maneuver defense of an ally to upgrade one action to the next higher action x/day
  • Arcane Pool (Su) sorc, wiz, bard, ranger? 1/2 caster level plus Int mod /day, spend a point from the arcane pool to add +1 to-hit with implement (8th), or, character level to damage done by a spell to one enemy (23, 28, 33) or, +1 to save DC (13), or +1 to spell penetration (18). starts at 1 point/round max, scales to 2, 3, 4, 5. damage feature is multiplicative, 5 points adds 5x level to up to 5 targets (!)
  • dismount abilities for mounts -- special attacks that can only be performed as a dismount action. Think something like a bull rush that immobilizes everyone you manage to push (after the push concludes).
  • Steelborne (Ex) cleric, bard, brawler, prowler, warlord, rogue? Allows the class to count their levels as Fighter levels for qualifying for feats. Differentiate by level acquired (8th for warlord, brawler, prowler, 13th for cleric, 18th for bard?) and by how 'strong' the fighter qualification is (warlod fighter = -5, brawler = -3, bard = -15, etc.)
  • Indestructible (Ex) cleric, paladin, warlord, fighter? Complete immunity from critical hits while wearing heavy armor (c28, w23, f18?) improves to immunity to precision damage as well five levels later?
  • Deadly Defense (Ex) rogue, ranger, fighter, warlord, partisan? Whenever you ready an action to attack a foe outside your current melee reach, add +2 to the threat range of your attack and add your character level to the damage dealt as base damage (!!)
  • Combat Advisor (Ex) bard, cleric, paladin, rogue, warlord? Whenever you miss with a melee attack, (and don't spend an action point) you may designate an ally within 30 feet that can see you to gain a +1 (morale? martial?) bonus on their next attack against that target. improves to next attack against any target, +2 against that target, +2 against any target, +1 to any target until end of the encounter. doesn't stack, of course.
  • Throw Implement (su) sorc, wiz, bard? x times per day, converts any spell which deals damage with a circle into a single-target ray with a range of 60 feet, embodied as charging the currently wielded implement and throwing it.
  • Path to Refuge (sp?) cler, dru, sorc, wiz? x times per week, manaburn 1 spell per hundred miles to return to your 'refuge'. manaburn same x spells per additional person to bring with you. cler 13, dru 18, sorc/wiz 23?
  • Stored Life (su) barbarian, brawler, fighter, partisan, paladin? when affected by a status condition, sacrifice a class feature for the remainder of the day to ignore the condition until the end of the encounter. rage power, tactic, type of attack, lay on hands, feat, etc, are all eligible.
describe this as Essence Omission; seems to follow the same rules 
  • Killing Focus (Ex) barbarian, fighter, monk, ranger, rogue, pariah, prowler, brawler? spend a swift action to focus on an opponent. If you then use a full attack action to attack that foe, making the maximum number of attacks, gain +1 to-hit and +1 base weapon damage with all attacks. Note: once gained, persists until the foe dies or you focus on something else, stacks!
  • Shadow Double (Su) bard, monk, pariah, prowler, rogue? x-times per day, move so sneakily you seem to be in two places at once. gain a flanking bonus with yourself, or, gain concealment, or, gain mirror image effect.
  • High Strike (Ex) barbarian, brawler, fighter, monk, prowler? a scaling number of times per day, if you make an attack from higher ground, gain a bonus attack as a swift action (!) this can be triggered by using climb, making a jump, using native sloped terrain, or by having a hover, vault, or fly speed.
  • Inveigle (Su) bard, cleric, pariah, sorcerer, warlord, wizard a scaling number of times per day, make a maneuver offense or caster check against a target within scaling distance. if you succeed, they no longer count as allied creatures to their former allies, and count as allies of you and your side instead. they provoke, cannot move through their former friends, do not grant flanks, etc. conversely, they now cannot make attacks of opportunity against your side, can be moved through without issue, and can be used to gain flanking. lasts for 1 round, scaling to end of encounter. can scale to allow multiple creatures to be affected per use of the ability
  • Everburn (Su) brawler, fighter, paladin, partisan? gain the ability to spend an action point to gain an action even while under the effects of a condition which normally removes the ability to take actions, such as helpless, paralyzed or petrified.
  • Serendipity (Su): Bard, urban barb, brawler, cleric, prowler, warlord? When you or one of your allies within 30 feet rolls any d20 check, use this ability as an immediate action before the results of the roll are checked to tweak the odds in their favor, increasing the result of the die roll or check by 1. This CAN turn a normal hit into a critical threat, but it cannot make an attack roll a natural 20. The character can use this ability a number of times per day up to their character level of the class that grants the ability. At intrepid tier (second tier) of the granting class, and every additional tier thereafter, they can increase the die result of the target's roll by an additional 1 by using up more of their daily uses. For example, a 12th-level bard with three tiers of bard has 12 points of serendipity, and can spend up to three points of serendipity to increase an ally's roll by 3 in one immediate action.
  • candidate for prestige class: mystic theurge is super cool, should be in the running for an early prestige class
  • check 'vigilante' class for ideas for possible skills expansion pass, might be some interesting ideas in there

critical path thoughts:

nine primary stats, seven derived stats Str-ength Physical strength, lift/carry/throw, melee damage, adds to PD, stamina, stun, Dex-terity Physical quickness, adds to physical hit and dodge, SPD Bod-y Physical hardiness and toughness, adds to ED, stamina, stun, recovery, stagger

Ego-tism Mental strength, Telekinetic lift/carry/throw, mental damage of all sorts Int-elligence Mental quickness, adds to mental hit and dodge, SPD Wil-lpower Mental hardiness and toughness, adds to DR, stun, stagger

Tal-ent Arcane strength, arcane lift/carry/throw, arcane damage of all sorts Cra-ft Arcane quickness, adds to arcane hit and dodge, SPD Abi-lity Arcane hardiness and toughness, adds to DR, stun, stagger




Interesting Links